MINUTES OF THE STRASBURG PLANNING COMMISSION WORKSESSION HELD ON THURSDAY, JUNE 15 2006, AT 7:30 P.M. IN THE COUNCIL CHAMBERS OF THE TOWN HALL.
Planning Commission members present: Chairman Smith, and Commissioners Crisman, Elliott, Howard, Kepler, and Whittle. Absent: Commissioner Terndrup. Others present: Town Planner Amos, Vice Mayor Nicholson, and Council Member Carl Rinker
Paul Lewis – Founders Landing Commercial Sign Request
Paul Lewis, the applicant: Said the rock wall was placed on his property without his permission. The rock wall has been removed by him and also by Mr. Adamy. They want to replace it with a new stone, redi-rock wall. It looks nice and is mainly used with entrance signs. The sign is to be about 12’ high and would be perpendicular to Rt. 11. Other wall would be about 10’ long and 3’ high. He is told by Winchester Building that some of the products are backordered so it might not look exactly like the pictures. He knows there are issues with the entrance corridor and he doesn’t see why anybody wouldn’t want it. The existing sign for Founder’s Landing will be added to the bottom of the sign. More landscaping that was called for in the site plan will be done also. Tenants have been promised something would be put up and he wants to get the sign permit approved.
Commissioner Elliott asked if the signs would be oval or square. Mr. Lewis said the sign would be able to list several of the businesses on one sign. This would allow the signs to match for all of the buildings. He knows there has been some confusion because this is the first commercial and residential development. He believes when Mr. Adamy completes the other commercial building, he will propose a similar sign so that they will match.
Chairman Smith asked about the direction of the sign. Mr. Lewis said the sign names will be perpendicular to Route 11. He said he will check with VDOT to make sure it is far enough back from the road. Chairman Smith asked if there would be any lighting. Mr. Lewis said he would like to have some landscaping lights, but he is not sure how this would work. His main goal is to get the sign permit passed. This sign will advertise the businesses and would keep all the names confined to one sign for the two buildings. Planner Amos said she will work with Mr. Lewis to find out the setbacks and where the sign should be.
None of the Commissioners have a problem with this and it will be added to the consent agenda. Planner Amos will check to see if this needs to be voted on, but Commissioner Kepler feels it does need to be. Chairman Smith said Mr. Lewis could go ahead and contact his supplier to order supplies as this will be on the consent agenda. Commissioner Elliott emphasized the importance of contacting VDOT. Mr. Lewis said he will contact VDOT and make sure it is in the proper location.
Chairman Smith reminded Mr. Lewis the Town and Planning Commission are not to be made a part of the dispute with that he is having with the original developer. Mr. Lewis said he does not want this to happen and had only mentioned this dispute because he had read in the minutes where it had been mentioned at a previous meeting.
Barbara Samuels, lives in the Founders Landing as a citizen and owns the second building: Said she has leased space and sold space to tenants and it is embarrassing to not have a sign in front of the property letting people know what is in the buildings.
Cedar Valley Site Plan Review
Ron Mislowsky, PHR&A, representing the applicant: Mr. Mislowsky said that Mr. Maddox had shown preliminary plans for the townhouses at the last meeting and he was here to show the more finalized product that has been submitted for review comments. He believes they have complied with requirements and added they will be submitting the plans in sections. They have gone back to site plan that was approved by Council. Mr. Mislowsky explained the parking areas and parking courts especially for those townhouses that have garages. Mr. Mislowsky said they have not received any comments back from agencies yet, but because of the delays the developer has gone through, they would like to get started as soon as possible. He does not know if another public hearing is required, but if so he would like it to be set. They have already gotten approval from VDOT as this plan does not change the entrance, etc. The E & S controls are still in place on the property. He has not heard from Dewberry & Davis or Strasburg Public Works. There was much discussion previously concerning the buffer; the buffer now will be in open space, controlled by the HOA. Planting of this will show up on the commercial site plan. Commissioner Kepler questioned the buffer being maintained by the HOA, but being planted by the commercial developer. Chairman Smith feels this will need to be “spelled out” somehow and Commissioner Kepler said it should be on the final plats so the buyer of the commercial property is fully aware of this.
Chairman Smith said he had a couple of comments. He did not find the lot dimensions and they are required and he thinks it would be easier to show this on a table. Commissioner Kepler discussed the sizes of the side lots and end unit lots and the internal vs. end lots and their requirements. Commissioner Kepler read a list of lots that need to have the lot dimensions shown. Mr. Mislowsky said some of the lots
Commissioner Kepler is considering end units, they do not consider as end units but as interior units. He added open space will become the issue in the last phase.
Chairman Smith questioned the road line-up with Dunmore and Mr. Mislowsky showed how it will connect to Dunmore.
Chairman Smith commented that the Fire Department would like to have fire stand pipes at the rear of all townhouse developments. A discussion followed as to what this actually is. It was suggested that Mr. Mislowsky discuss this with a representative of the fire department.
Commissioner Terndrup said that on page 6, there was no key that she was aware of. Mr. Mislowsky said what she was referring to was stabilization matter that goes on the slope. Commissioner Terndrup said she was concerned with lot 35 and what kind of a backyard the people would have. She also questioned how the residents would have access into their backyards; Mr. Mislowsky said some of the lots wouldn’t have much of a backyard. There was a discussion as to gates and fences around the yards of the townhouses.
Commissioner Kepler said he had not noticed before and wants to make sure VDOT knows about the grading on the Route 11 work. He pointed out on the plan what he was discussing. He wanted to make sure storm water was not being run into the middle of the road. Mr. Mislowsky is going to check on this. Commissioner Kepler pointed out a UP line that had been missed. He also still does not like the way the drive curves, but he doesn’t have an answer or suggestions for it. He said he does not see the typical 2’ offset between every two lots. Mr. Mislowsky said they made the block include room for the houses to offset based on what the developer would construct. He added the new plans actually show this. Commissioner Kepler discussed a parking count and Mr. Mislowsky said it is 2.5 spaces per unit. Commissioner Kepler reminded all that parking lots require not only perimeter landscaping, but interior, 5% green-space parking. Commissioner Kepler questioned the trash dumpsters and Planner Amos said the Town collects trash and dumpsters are not necessary. It was pointed out that Sheet 2 shows Route 11 as 45 MPH and it is actually 35 MPH in this location. Commissioner Kepler questioned the tree calculations. Last issue was the road extending toward phase 3 and he thinks that should be included in the next phase as he wouldn’t want to have people driving all the way back and having to back out.
Planner Amos discussed the interior units and fencing and the requirements for back fencing and she would like a note added concerning this. Her other comment concerned 3-10.9 and storage: must have a storage unit if there is no basement. Planner Amos said decks need to be included in the setbacks. BZA has given variances and she does not think they will be giving any more.
Mr. Mislowsky said there is a new set of plans they are cleaning up and he will include all these comments on this set.
Al Davis, 180 Tyler Drive, Strasburg, VA: Commented that there is a problem with trash pick-up at Hupp’s Ridge where there is a line of townhouses and people have to bring their trash all the way around from the back for pick-up. He doesn’t know if there is any way the trash could be collected from the rear. Planner Amos said an easement would help so people could get mowers, etc. to their property.
Aiken/Claytor Site Plan Review
Mr. Ron Mislowsky, representing the applicant: Mr. Mislowsky showed the layout of the master plan approved last year and then in March they came back with this and the only comment they had was concerning the 30’ driveway and they have incorporated this comment into the final design. He believes the plan conforms to the master plan. There are 8 acres of commercial space in the front and the historic house will be saved. The proffer called for 64 single family and 64 townhouses; they are now showing 64 townhouses, but only 57 single family units. They have received comments from Director of Public Works Rhodes and have addressed theses. He discussed the change on the common force main and the revision on a cul-de-sac to a sewer pump station. One section of road is more than 10% and he has talked to Mr. Rhodes about this and he didn’t have any concerns with this, but will have to go the Streets Committee for a waiver; he pointed out the area on the plan. Mr. Rhodes wanted a 3 layer road section on all the roads and the other comments were pretty standard. They have not received comments from VDOT. Plans are ready to get water and sewer to the industrial park across the road. They would like to move forward as soon as possible and get a public hearing set, if necessary.
Commissioner Whittle questioned the service road and Mr. Mislowsky said it is curb and guttered road, open to traffic.
Chairman Smith said his only comments were about the lot dimensions and the fire standpipes.
Commissioner Terndrup said the Code says not more than 8 and not less than 4 units and the plan shows some with 9 or 10 units. Planner Amos said there is a problem with the number of single family dropping below the 50%; developers are only allowed 50% townhouses. Mr. Mislowsky questioned this in relation to the proffer. He believes the proffer said 64 and 64, but Planner Amos said the reason it was 64 and 64 was because of the Code. Planner Amos will check with VML on how to deal with this.
Commissioner Terndrup asked about the gas line easement and Mr. Mislowsky said they have been in contact with the gas company and any development will have to stay out of the easement area.
Commissioner Terndrup said the cul-de-sac issue still concerns her. There is only one way in and one way out and what if something happens near the main road. A discussion followed on this as to where a cul-de-sac actually starts. Commissioner Terndrup said the definition of a cul-de-sac is one way in and this development is only one way in. Commissioner Kepler said he does not know the intention of the cul-de-sac ordinance in this. He added some jurisdictions required another entrance when you exceeded a certain number of lots. Commissioners decided this should be looked at in the Ordinance Committee.
Commissioner Kepler said many of his comments were the same as the last discussion with Cedar Valley in regards to side and end lots, fencing, and dumpsters. He also did not see any information on adjoiners. He added he had a question about storm water outfalls. They discussed this and Mr. Mislowsky there is a large drainage area that comes down under I81 and believes it is Cedar Run; this has been discussed this with Mr. Hepner.
Commissioner Kepler said he noticed the future commercial development and you can’t tell the difference between the commercial and the open space and so he would like it be defined better. Also the number of bedrooms and parking spaces need to be noted. Commissioner Kepler referenced back to his comment about adjoiners and said the reason he questioned this is regarding uses next to it – buffers, landscaping, etc. He didn’t realize there was a railroad adjacent and he wondered how the Town looked at this --- would the railroad set the buffer or do you look at the property across the railroad? Planner Amos said she thinks the buffering would be the same as along I81. Commissioner Kepler also questioned the street trees and the count.
Chairman Smith asked about the cross section for Road A and Mr. Mislowsky said the cross-section was for the emergency access.
Commissioner Terndrup had a question about the trees and saving them and Planner Amos explained the criteria used when saving and cutting the trees.
Planner Amos questioned the open space and Mr. Mislowsky said some of the open space will be with the commercial and the entire project requires 30%.
Mr. Mislowsky asked what the next step would be. Chairman Smith said the comments need to be addressed and if this is back to the Commissioners in the next packet, it can be added to the next meeting.
Strasburg Green Site Plan Review
Denny Dunlap, Triad Engineering, representing the applicant: Mr. Dunlap said they have not received any comments yet, they are a work in progress, and they know there are some problems. Said this is the layout approved with the rezoning. He explained various aspects of the plans. The water system is looped with 8” lines; sanitary sewer is a regional pump station; and the regional storm water pond is sized to handle any future development. Curb and gutter are included in the plans as are the street trees.
Chairman Smith again mentioned the standpipe with the fire department. Also, the existing zoning on surrounding properties needs to be shown. He couldn’t identify the storm water catch basins and erosion control --- he just couldn’t tell what was going on; (it was realized these pages were not included in the packets sent to the Commissioners provided by the applicant). 100 year flood line needs to be shown. The grade of Hite Lane is still steep and will probably have to go through the Streets Committee; the span of the steep grades may be short enough that it is okay. Mr. Dunlap said they have met with Mr. Ingram and he felt they could work with them on this. Chairman Smith said that given the site, he can see reasons for a variance.
Commissioner Terndrup said she has her cul-de-sac issue again and the one way in and one way out. She would like to hear from the Fire Department on this. Mr. Rosenfeld said the Fire Department has approved the plan.
Commissioner Kepler said he had a repeat comment from the previous applications --- end units and side yards. Mr. Dunlap questioned this and asked which units Mr. Kepler considered the end units. Planner Amos and Commissioner Kepler pointed out the ones they consider end units on the plan. Also the number of bedrooms and parking spaces need to be noted. Mr. Dunlap asked about the garage units and the driveways. A discussion on sinkholes followed and Mr. Dunlap said there are geotech studies going on now. Commissioner Terndurp asked if there would be anything in the deeds informing them of the possibility. Mr. Dunlap said this will be decided after the study is done and probably some language or covenants will be added.
Commissioner Kepler said no driveway entrances are shown and he would like the driveway cuts be shown. He also commented on fences in the townhouses. It was added the street lights must be shown on the plans. He does not see any fire hydrants next to the apartment complexes and there was some discussion on fire hydrant spacing requirements. It was suggested to double check to make sure the spacing is correct.
The landscape buffering requirements were discussed as well as the parking landscaping for both townhouses and apartments.
Commissioner Kepler said he had two detail comments. One regarded an inlet and he pointed this out on the plan and said there was potential for it clogging up. He would also like more detail of where the drainage goes. Planner Amos asked to have details of the swales shown. There was a discussion on the trees that will be preserved.
Planner Amos is to find out if the Streets Committee will be meeting soon and Mr. Rosenfeld said he does not have a problem with going to the Streets Committee, but he has discussed this with VDOT and they are willing to work with them on it. Mr. Rosenfeld also mentioned the plans for a “function hall.” Questions were also brought up about an overlook area.
Ordinance Amendments Review:
Planner Amos said the Ordinance Committee will be meeting on Monday, June 26 at 7 p.m. Handouts were provided to all attending.
Al Davis, 180 Tyler Court: Mr. Davis questioned 3-10.1 where it reads, “each townhouse structure shall be adjacent to and have access to a dedicated public street.” “What means access? Do they really mean vehicular access?” He feels it needs to be more specific. Chairman Smith said this problem became known because of the lots off of Queen Street where each lot actually touches Stover Avenue and met the regulation in place currently.
3-14 Site Plan Requirements: “No clearing, grubbing, grading of the site or construction of infrastructures …” Mr. Davis said the use of the word infrastructure is redundant because the definition of construction is noted at the bottom of that page.
Under Steep Slopes D-1: “Every application for a special use permit for the platting of lots between forty-percent shall be accompanied.” Mr. Davis said there is something missing in this statement --- must be between two things. Commissioner Kepler said you could get rid of the word between altogether.
Mr. Davis also believes the Town needs to think about the applications that are coming in saying this is the responsibility of the homeowners association. He feels this needs to be more specific and that the ordinance should be amended to read “original agreement on the Homeowners Associations be subject to Planning Commission approval.” Commissioner Kepler said the Commission does need to see the agreement, but Mr. Davis did not read where it must be approved. Commissioner Kepler said it is under the final plat section and checked for the wording. They will do further checking on this.
Commissioner Kepler said he believes there is a typo in 6-4.2. 1A. Planner Amos said this had been discussed, but not corrected so she will take care of this.
Chairman Smith asked if any Commissioners had more items they would like addressed at the Ordinance Committee meeting.
Commissioner Terndrup would like the cul-de-sacs addressed. Chairman Smith said he had a note to ask if the Town wants to require two accesses or at least the second access for a certain number of homes. Commissioner Terndrup questioned the figuring of the average slope.
All Commissioners are to look at all zoning and subdivision ordinances and if anything else needs changing or clarifying, let Chairman Smith know.
Commissioner Kepler said from reading the ordinances, he reads it as the Planning Commission is one agency in the whole scheme of things in regard to final approval and that the other agencies need to approve it, too. He feels many applicants think that once they have the Planning Commission’s approval, they are “good to go.” He wants to know when as a Planning Commission do they see comments from other agencies and engineers. It would make the reviewing of the plans easier if all comments were in hand first. He hopes many of the comments the Commissioners are making are being “caught” by the on-call engineers and so much of the work is being repeated. Chairman Smith said this is how it should be done --- they would not consider anything until all the comments are in. Planner Amos said she thinks it should be added to the by-laws and this would make it easier to enforce. Commissioner Kepler thinks at a Worksession the Commissioners would look at the “big” picture and Staff and Dewberry and Davis would be responsible for the “small” issues. Planner Amos said this sounds good, but all developers want to come to the Planning Commission early on to try to save time. Planner Amos will write something to this effect for the by-laws.
Commissioner Whittle asked for the Commissioners to be provided with a copy of the Annexation Agreement.
Gibbeee’s Car Wash and Auto Lube
Mr. Gibbons presented a diagram of the sign he would like to erect. This will be added to the consent agenda.
Being no further business, the Worksession adjourned at 8:37 p.m.